Iowa city council debates proper time in meeting agenda to “undo the curse that was just put on our city.”

An Iowa man has kicked off controversy over religious freedom in the small town of Ottumwa, Iowa by opening a city council meeting with a prayer to Satan, which then kicked off a debate about the proper time in the meeting agenda to undo the “curse.”

  • jve@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    That prayer is fire.

    Dear dark father, let us stand now unbowed and unfettered by arcane doctrines born of fearful minds and darkened times. Let us embrace the Luciferan impulse to eat off the tree of knowledge and dissipate our blissful and comforting delusions of old.”

    Let us demand that individuals be judged for their concrete actions, not for their fealty to arbitrary social norms and illusory categorizations,” he continued. “Let us reason our solutions with agnosticism in all things, holding fast only to that which is demonstrably true. Let us stand firm against any and all arbitrary authority that threatens the personal sovereignty of one or all. That which will not bend must break. And that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.”“It is done. Hail Satan,”

    • IamSparticles@lemmy.zip
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      28 days ago

      What’s ridiculous about it is, if any of the people who were offended actually sat down and analyzed the wording, the only thing they could reasonably object to is the “Hail Satan” at the end. Which illustrates the entire problem with Christian Nationalism. They don’t care about the content, only the branding.

      • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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        28 days ago

        No, there are religious people that object heavily to truth seeking. One must only have faith, you don’t need truth!

      • maxthemummer@lemmus.org
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        28 days ago

        “They don’t care about the content, only the branding.” - Which is also the problem with Trumpism.

      • Kanda@reddthat.com
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        28 days ago

        Not sure if the “luciferan impulse to eat off the tree of knowledge” would slide all too well

  • cannedtuna@lemmy.worldOP
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    28 days ago

    People often seem to forget that “Religious Freedom” means all religions, not just yours.

    Never mind the importance of the separation of church and skate state

  • Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz
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    28 days ago

    At the Tuesday night council meeting, the audience stood up to recite the Pledge of Allegiance the moment Dalbey finished.

    The dubiousness of unquestioning nationalism aside, the pledge of allegiance containing ‘under god’ also makes it a religious phrase.

  • bitjunkie@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    They only want religious freedom when they’re using their religion as an excuse to infringe on other people’s rights. Hail Satan.

  • Sabata@ani.social
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    28 days ago

    Another citizen, a pastor named Rick Bick, rushed to the podium. “Let’s just reverse that curse that was just put on our city,” he said. “That ending with hail Satan and hail dark god. That’s not welcome here.”

    “Mayor, that should be done at the end,” city councilor Cara Galloway said.

    “It needs to be done now, OK.” Rick said. “I appreciate what Ms. Galloway is saying but that was a curse put on our city when he said ‘Hail Satan’ and the dark god and most of you know that. And we need to just stop and reverse it.”

    “So what I’m gonna do now…I’m just gonna invite us into a 30 second time of prayer — time of silence.”

    “No,” Galloway said. “We are at the consent agenda. I’m sorry, but it’s time to move forward. The invocation happened.”

    “As mayor of this city…I’m going to ask right now that we do a moment of silence to reflect on whatever it is we need to reflect on at this time. And then we will move to the consent agenda,” mayor Benjamin Foote said.

    I should start giving incantations, that reaction is gold.

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      I used to be a preacher, and am still a Christian. I also have given money to the Satanic Temple because the work they do is important.

      Separation of church and state is good for the government, the churches, and society at large.

  • Dæmon S.@catodon.rocks
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    28 days ago

    Ideally, religions (yeah, including mine) should be as away as possible from politics, but it’s priceless to see christians’ reaction when they hear the names Satan and Lucifer. I’ve been at that other side once, it really feels “scaaariee” when we’re a christian, feels like He’s gonna suddenly pop up out of the thin air with a flamey trident and an evil laughter “muhwhahahahah” while approaching to perform a bone-crushing bear hug (in reality, He’s too busy with His own cosmic businesses to keep performing to we the hominids at the Pale Blue Dot when someone says His name out loud here in this quadrant of the universe, and He doesn’t have a trident or a trisula, these are Poseidon’s and Shiva’s departments, respectively). Sad thing most christians don’t know about their own Isaiah 34:14, so they would be clueless when/if someone were to say out loud “Ave Lilith” (or, even better, “Renich Viesa Avage Lilith Lirach”)… An idea of which I leave here as a suggestion to Iowa, by the way.

    [email protected]

    • reka@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      My mother was a lifelong devout catholic and always described satan as simply a shorthand for the absence of good rather than a powerful entity. Though I guess she was pretty progressive.

      IMO if your conception of god exists primarily in contrast to a powerful demon, you’re kind of just building your life around a demon.

  • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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    28 days ago

    Lucifer was the most beautiful of all angels and was cast down to earth for daring to question God’s authority.

    Not that any of those cross eyed bear-ing Christians would know that.

    Edit: apparently this is Milton’s fanfic.

      • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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        28 days ago

        TY! TIL.

        Corrected, or at least acknowledged.

        It’s been a very long time since I’ve read the old testament.

        IMHO it’s all fanfic.

        • Mantzy81@aussie.zone
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          28 days ago

          Technically, all stories are made up, be they prose or poetry.

          The Bible is the canon story so Milton would be fanfic.

          If the Bible was fanfic, it implies the canon lies elsewhere. I consider it a fantasy epic, but a really really dull one. It’s like someone thinking Harry Potter is non-fiction - you’d have to be special to think it happened.

          • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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            28 days ago

            Wasn’t it the Council of Nicea (or something like that) that more or less assembled the Christian Bible as we know it today? Which means there’re a bunch of stuff that didn’t make it in.

            Some of which appears in Jewish scriptures and in Islamic scriptures or lost to time.

            If it’s written by fallible men, and edited by fallible men, then its “Canon” isn’t worth shit.

            • frongt@lemmy.zip
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              28 days ago

              Don’t forget that when you translate it from the original, you make choices about which words to use

  • YragNitram1956@feddit.uk
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    28 days ago

    Satan? I do not believe in Satan, leprechauns, pixies, ghosts, werewolves, jujus, angels, Tooth Faeries, Odin, Thor, Zeus, Ra, Brahma, Athena, Hera, Poseidon, Yahweh, Allah, or the Trinity, demons, devils, Astrology, the Tarot, Satan. For the same reason in every case: there is not the tiniest shred of 𝐚𝐧𝐲 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦 𝐨𝐟 empirical, 𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥, 𝐡𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥, 𝐨𝐫 𝐜𝐨𝐫𝐫𝐨𝐛𝐨𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐞𝐯𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐞𝐱𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐨𝐟 any 𝐆𝐨𝐝 and the burden of proof rests with those who wish to believe. Even given no evidence for specific gods, we could make a case for some unspecified “intelligent designer” or “prime mover” or begetter of “something rather than nothing”? By far the most appealing version of this argument is the biological one - living things do present a powerful illusion of design. But that is the very version that Darwin destroyed. Any theist who appeals to “design” of living creatures simply betrays his ignorance of biology. Go away and read a book. And any theist who appeals to biblical “evidence” betrays ignorance of biblical scholarship. The burden of proof rests with those who wish to believe. Even given no evidence for specific gods, could 'his ignorance of modern scholarship. Go away and read another book. As for the cosmological argument, whose God goes under names such as Prime Mover or First cause, again no evidence. Because physicists are closing in, with spell-binding results. Even if there remain unanswered questions - where do the fundamental laws and constants of physics come from? Obviously, it cannot help to postulate a designer whose existence poses bigger questions than he purports to solve. If science fails, our best hope is to build a better science. The answer will lie neither in theology nor - its exact equivalent - reading tea leaves. In any case, it is a fatuously illogical jump from deistic Unmoved Mover to Christian Trinity, with the Son being tortured and murdered because the Father, for all his omniscience and omnipotence, could not think of a better way to forgive “sin”. Equally unconvincing are those who believe because it comforts them (why should truth be consoling?) or because it “feels right”. The wife of a former UK prime minister may stand for the” feels right” brigade. She based her belief on “an understanding of something that her head cannot explain but my heart knows to be true.” She aspired to become a judge! My’lud, I cannot provide the evidence you require. My head cannot explain why, but my heart knows it to be true. Why is religion immune to the critical standards we apply not just in our courts of law, but in every other life?”
    Richard Dawkins

    • melsaskca@lemmy.ca
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      28 days ago

      No evidence for the Prime Mover? Something had to start the ball rolling somewhere. Was the ball always rolling? That makes no sense based on the life/death, on/off, one/zero life we see all around us.