Some men have told me I was crazy to pass up the “opportunity”. And some women have told me that I was a “gentleman” for doing so.
I don’t know why men are so awful sometimes. But I think a big part of the problem is that taking advantage of women is normal and accepted.
The term “rape culture” is often misunderstood, lampooned, etc. but that’s a really good distillation of it. SA is not “encouraged” in a legal sense, it’s punished, but there is a cultural expectation of men to be uncontrollably sexually aggressive while women are supposed to “defend their virtue”.
If men aren’t sufficiently sexually assertive, they are often seen as less masculine. This isn’t always the case - it can support the conception of masculinity as being chivalrous. But can also be viewed as being more passive, less virile, less strong, etc.
If women are perceived not successfully “defending their virtue”, it’s seen as a failure on their part except sometimes in extreme cases of sexual violence if seen as being “unprovoked”. Hence the “look what she was wearing”, “asking for it”, etc. etc. tropes. These are often less overt now, which causes people to overlook the extent to which they blame women for being victims of SA.
I think the points you are making here are ones people miss. The societal perception that women should control sex creates the whole situation. In a way, women are expected to mask their desire for sex everywhere except the bedroom. Sadly, the western world is the progressive group on this. The rules on what women can wear in other countries doubles down on the masking. And we know how well that works for the women…
But have do we move forward on eliminating the source of the issue. I just don’t know. The system just treatments the symptoms with laws.
It makes women adversaries instead of partners. It emboldens predators and removes people’s agency. Things like rape make certain people feel more powerful.
The problem is a lack of access to basic resources, resulting in lower education and thus more tribalism. A few of us are amplifying that because we’ve let that be profitable.
I think it’s a vicious cycle there more than one creating the whole situation. The expectation that men will be sexually aggressive encourages women to be sexually defensive which includes masking desire which leaves much more room for men to be encouraged to be sexually aggressive.
The ultimate solution is to work on both at the same time. We need to continue the push for sexual liberation, which includes encouraging women to be open about desires and to make moves, but is ultimately the process of getting men/women to move from an aggressive/defensive approach to sex to both having an egalitarian and cooperative approach
At least that’s my outsiders perspective, I’m a lesbian who never dated men, so grain of salt and whatnot
It’s more or less spot on, from what I’ve seen, and it makes perfect sense. You don’t get a system to last centuries without making it thoroughly self-reinforcing. And it’s precisely what makes the outside perspectives valuable: it’s hard for a fish to see water unless you take it out of it. Otherwise you just end up turning “boys will be boys” into “yes all men”.
In addition to all that, I find it highly ironic that women are expected to be beautiful and sexy and present themselves to men for our gaze, meaning that we men are expected to try to take advantage while the women are expected to stop us.
I remember being confused about why “slut” was an insult as a teen. My line of thought, as someone that wanted to have sex with women, was that women that liked sex sounded more fun.
I understand now it’s insecurity. Guys feeling threatened by a woman having experience with other guys because they know they don’t put much effort in to even understanding how to pleasure a woman but want to assume they are amazing in bed anyways. Insecurity on its own is ok, but the way they handle it is fucking pathetic.
It’s the same mindset that gives them an ego boost from cheating but then getting paranoid or even outraged when they realize their partner could be doing the same to them. It’s hilarious sometimes watching cheaters react to actually getting cheated on, too.
It is a completely toxic and stupid culture, and those who fight for even LESS education on the matter just make it worse. Ignorance isn’t even bliss. lol
The term “rape culture” is often misunderstood, lampooned, etc. but that’s a really good distillation of it. SA is not “encouraged” in a legal sense, it’s punished, but there is a cultural expectation of men to be uncontrollably sexually aggressive while women are supposed to “defend their virtue”.
If men aren’t sufficiently sexually assertive, they are often seen as less masculine. This isn’t always the case - it can support the conception of masculinity as being chivalrous. But can also be viewed as being more passive, less virile, less strong, etc.
If women are perceived not successfully “defending their virtue”, it’s seen as a failure on their part except sometimes in extreme cases of sexual violence if seen as being “unprovoked”. Hence the “look what she was wearing”, “asking for it”, etc. etc. tropes. These are often less overt now, which causes people to overlook the extent to which they blame women for being victims of SA.
Rape culture - it’s defo a thing and that’s it.
I’d argue that pedo culture is pretty widespread as well.
I think the points you are making here are ones people miss. The societal perception that women should control sex creates the whole situation. In a way, women are expected to mask their desire for sex everywhere except the bedroom. Sadly, the western world is the progressive group on this. The rules on what women can wear in other countries doubles down on the masking. And we know how well that works for the women…
But have do we move forward on eliminating the source of the issue. I just don’t know. The system just treatments the symptoms with laws.
It makes women adversaries instead of partners. It emboldens predators and removes people’s agency. Things like rape make certain people feel more powerful.
The problem is a lack of access to basic resources, resulting in lower education and thus more tribalism. A few of us are amplifying that because we’ve let that be profitable.
That’s what needs fixing.
I think it’s a vicious cycle there more than one creating the whole situation. The expectation that men will be sexually aggressive encourages women to be sexually defensive which includes masking desire which leaves much more room for men to be encouraged to be sexually aggressive.
The ultimate solution is to work on both at the same time. We need to continue the push for sexual liberation, which includes encouraging women to be open about desires and to make moves, but is ultimately the process of getting men/women to move from an aggressive/defensive approach to sex to both having an egalitarian and cooperative approach
At least that’s my outsiders perspective, I’m a lesbian who never dated men, so grain of salt and whatnot
It’s more or less spot on, from what I’ve seen, and it makes perfect sense. You don’t get a system to last centuries without making it thoroughly self-reinforcing. And it’s precisely what makes the outside perspectives valuable: it’s hard for a fish to see water unless you take it out of it. Otherwise you just end up turning “boys will be boys” into “yes all men”.
In addition to all that, I find it highly ironic that women are expected to be beautiful and sexy and present themselves to men for our gaze, meaning that we men are expected to try to take advantage while the women are expected to stop us.
I remember being confused about why “slut” was an insult as a teen. My line of thought, as someone that wanted to have sex with women, was that women that liked sex sounded more fun.
I understand now it’s insecurity. Guys feeling threatened by a woman having experience with other guys because they know they don’t put much effort in to even understanding how to pleasure a woman but want to assume they are amazing in bed anyways. Insecurity on its own is ok, but the way they handle it is fucking pathetic.
It’s the same mindset that gives them an ego boost from cheating but then getting paranoid or even outraged when they realize their partner could be doing the same to them. It’s hilarious sometimes watching cheaters react to actually getting cheated on, too.
But I digress.
It is a completely toxic and stupid culture, and those who fight for even LESS education on the matter just make it worse. Ignorance isn’t even bliss. lol